Posted by: twinkiewrangler | April 12, 2011

Highlights from the James Arthur Ray Manslaughter Trial: Testimony of Theodore Martin Mercer “Ted”

Highlights from State of Arizona vs. James Arthur Ray

April 6-7, 2011

Testifying today is  Theodore “Ted” Mercer

Here are highlights from direct examination by Ms. Polk

 

Theodore Martin Mercer testimony in James Arthur Ray's Manslaughter Trial

Theodore "Ted" Mercer

 

MORNING TWEETS

yogicher J. Cheri

Ted Mercer will testify how he constructs the sweat lodge, this afternoon. #JamesRay

 

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Kelly agrees that Kirby & James’ imaginary love affair isn’t relevant :: but then he rubs it in a little anyway. #JamesRay

 

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Maybe James Shore was in love with the idea of Kirby not dying alone on the floor of a con-man-hot-box. #JamesRay

 

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Maybe James Shore was in love with the idea of Kirby not dying alone on the floor of a con-man-hot-box. #JamesRay

 

katiecoolady Kathy M.

404 b ruling, state of AZ: http://www.arizonacrimelaws.com/e404.htm #jamesray

 

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Judge :: be careful to ask questions that properly build foundation and don’t elicit hearsay #JamesRay

 

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Judge basically saying that past lodges aren’t necessarily “prior bad acts” the way they are being introduced by the State. #JamesRay

 

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

That’s going to be my answer to everything: Singing Bear told us. #jamesray

 

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Evidence permitted :: but it must be carefully introduced. #JamesRay

katiecoolady Kathy M. @JaneLWilcox Darrow is wise to know that this will be appealed up the yinyang after a conviction-avoiding retrial. #jamesray

 

katiecoolady Kathy M.

We will limit witnesses’ testimony strictly to what they observed–(which is bad enough for Ray) #jamesray

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Predict that the defense will move for a least 3 mistrails before the end. That’s what you do when you have no case, or ethics. #JamesRay

 

katiecoolady Kathy M.

Motion for mistrial DENIED. Let’s get a move on. Ok now they want a “brief stay”. Oh please. #jamesray

 

dotfreedom DOROTHY

Kelly arguing Defense is not prepared “given our ethical responsibility to represent Mr. Ray.” Wants “break in trial. #jamesray

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Stupid motion for mistrial :: denied. Mr. Kelly asks for a delay in the jury trial. #JamesRay

Jeanne0o0 Jeannika

More stalling tactics from Mr. Kelly – states he’s caught off guard and not ready to go forward. Let’s take another sick day off. #JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Kelly says the defense was assuming prior lodges would never be mentioned … guess he didn’t hear Ms. Haley’s testimony. #JamesRay

 

yakaru309 Yakaru

In white paper pg 6: “JRI used lodge in 08. Over next yr 8 other groups used same lodge w/o incident.” #JamesRay http://bit.ly/7C6h2L

 

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Mercer had no experience with sweat lodges until he started working at Angel Valley. #JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Ted makes no pretensions of knowing what he was doing or why during the semi-religious/semi-sacrilegious lodge building ceremony. #JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Li allowed a small voir dire on Ted’s knowledge or tarp storage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire #JamesRay

yakaru309 Yakaru

In the white papers defense was arguing *same* lodge was used for 2 yrs with no problems, so #JamesRay couldn’t have foreseen problems.

 

MicheleInSedona Michele

Li suggesting the blankets and tarps have a life of their own. #jamesray TM did not see them every day of the year.

 

MicheleInSedona Michele

TM never sprayed the blankets, etc. with anything other than water #jamesray

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Mercer saw the rat poison in the pump house :: but didn’t put it there himself. #JamesRay

@yogicher there was a giant rubber blanket-type thing. Mercer called it a “rubber deal” #JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Religious structures built like stage props pretty much sums up New Age spirituality … #JamesRay

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

Mercer: 2 or 3 layers of blankets under all tarps on sweat lodge #jamesray (blue materials were often moving blankets, not tarps)

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

There’s a focus on blocking out the light from the lodge. Blankets and tarps are added until it’s dark. #JamesRay

yogicher J. Cheri

Ted Mercer: The (big) rubber deal never got hot. #JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

The tarp and the rubber deal were never hot to the touch during the ceremony. #JamesRay

MicheleInSedona Michele

TM: We never use the same rocks twice for sweat lodge. Used rocks used to build a wall. #jamesray

MicheleInSedona Michele

TM was fire keeper for 09 #jamesray lodge. He had only been fire keeper for 2 lodges.

MicheleInSedona Michele

Wood was cut and stacked waiting for them for ’09 #jamesray sweatlodge. Used mixture of wood around creek and construction wood.

 

yogicher J. Cheri

TM: the wood was already cut and stacked. Ted didn’t supply it. Looked the same as that construction pile 100yds away from SL tho’ #JamesRay

 

MicheleInSedona Michele

TM says construction wood (from cleaning up property) was used beginning in ’08 #JamesRay

 

 

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

Mercer: #jamesray fire was combination of construction wood and wood from near creek; May 2009 sweat was all construction wood for fire

 

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

Mercer: I never got sick in 2007, 2008, and 2009 after tending the fire. #jamesray

 

yogicher J. Cheri

TM never got sick, being in sweatlodges using construction wood. Lunch time. Ted asks the judge if he can have lunch with his wife.#JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Only people who didn’t live and work at Angel Valley got poisoned :: how magical. Lunch Recess. #JamesRay

 

Afternoon:  April 6, 2011 Direct Examination of “Ted” Mercer by Ms. Polk

Ms. Polk: Who is in charge of a sweat lodge ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Ms. Polk: The person who is inside the sweat lodge –the pourer — I guess that’s what they call him he’s the one that’s in charge of the ceremonies?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Ms. Polk: Who was the pourer?

Mr. Mercer: The 1st one was James Ray.

 

Ms. Polk: Do you recall who the pourer of who lead the ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: I don’t remember his name.

Ms. Polk: What other pourers do you remember?

Mr. Mercer: I remember Healing Wolf http://is.gd/yEWWrv and David Singing Bear http://is.gd/tAcBiT and James Ray and well the Agape group but I don’t know who was in charge of that

Mr. Mercer: There was another guy that had a real Indian name I can’t remember his name but I did a sweat lodge for him too –Kerrie Dancing Butterfly http://is.gd/e1ITwO she did a sweat there.

Ms. Polk: Tell the jury where that sacred space is?

Mr. Mercer: Right on the other side of these rocks there’s like a circle of rocks right around the whole thing.

Ms. Polk: What about the sage, how is that used?

Mr. Mercer: We burn it it’s like a symbolic thing to try to clear any negative energy and bring good energy to that space.

Ms. Polk: And how is the saging done?

Mr. Mercer: They stand with their arms open and you just run the sage smoke around them. Sometimes they burn that smoke and the smoke sets their intentions into participation.

Ms. Polk: Before the saging, have any heated rocks been put in there yet?

Mr. Mercer: No.

Ms. Polk: When do you bring the rocks in?

Mr. Mercer: When the pourer asks us .

Ms. Polk: There’s somebody that brushes it off gets all the soot and stuff?

Mr. Mercer: We say,  “Aho.  Mitakuye Oyasin.” Everyone in the sweat lodge says that that’s welcoming the grandfathers into the sweat lodge.

Ms. Polk: What is a Grandfather?

Mr. Mercer: We call the lava rocks grandfathers.

Ms. Polk: Where does the water come from?

Mr. Mercer: I don’t know.

Ms. Polk: Once a number of rocks for first round what happens?

Mr. Mercer: We open it out so we can get to the rocks.

Ms. Polk: Then what happens?

Mr. Mercer: We scoop em out and hand them into the sweat lodge.

Ms. Polk: How long would it take to get one rock into the sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: Well the 1st rock usually takes a lot longer but just a minute or so. You want to get them in there quick.

Ms. Polk: Once that person who’s inside of the door where does that person go?

Mr. Mercer: They just go in.

Ms. Polk: What is it that determines how hot a sweat lodge will get?

Mr. Mercer: The number of rocks I guess.

Ms. Polk:  Who determines how many rocks will go into it?

Mr. Mercer: The pourer.

Ms. Polk: Are the rocks always uniformly hot?

Mr. Mercer: Well no. When I first started doing it I wasn’t the best at keeping the rocks really, really hot.

Ms. Polk: Who is it that determines how long the door will be open?

Mr. Mercer: That’s the pourer.

Ms. Polk: Who is it that determines how hot the rocks will be?

Mr. Mercer; That’s the pourer.

Ms. Polk: Who is it that determines how many rounds? T

Mr. Mercer: That’s the pourer.

Ms. Polk: Why are the  rocks are not reused?

Mr. Mercer: Energetically you just don’t want them around.

Ms. Polk: Who determined how hot the lodge would get in the first sweat lodge you assisted in?

Mr. Mercer: Gary Palish determines how hot he’s the fire keeper. (AKA Silver Bear a friend of Michael Hamilton)

Ms. Polk: Who else was there?

Mr. Mercer: My wife and Mr. Artillo.

Ms. Polk: How many people were at Mr. Ray’s sweat lodge ceremony on October 8th?

Mr. Mercer: I’m sure it was over 40.

Ms. Polk: At some point was there a person who appeared to be in distress?

Defense: Objection.

Judge Darrow: Sustained.

Ms. Polk: With regard to the people who drew your attention, did you observe something that concerned you?

Defense: Objection.

Judge Darrow: Overruled.

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Ms. Polk: Specifically what concerned you, limiting your answer to what you observed about that person?

Mr. Mercer: In part there was this one lady who came out of the sweat lodge  a tall lady not large. She came out and her eyes were rolling into back of head she passed out and her face went right into the dirt and she scraped up her whole face and it was bloody and bleeding and all that.

Ms. Polk: Specifically what did you observe?

Mr. Mercer: Well at first we saw her laying there getting cooled off and getting her energy back so she could sit up

Ms. Polk: Talk about a 2nd person specifically that you recall. Did you assist people come out of the sweat lodge?

Mr. Li: Objection. Move to strike.

Judge Darrow:  That response will be stricken and the last as well

Ms. Polk: For the 1st person, how did you assist them?

Mr. Mercer: We cannot enter the sweat lodge so when they get to the door we just grab their arm and we just pull them over to the tarp.

Ms. Polk: With respect to 1st person that you assisted what specifically did you observe that made you assist them?

Mr. Mercer: Ok when her eyes rolled in the back of her head.

Ms.Polk:  What about another person?

Ms. Polk: With respect to that ceremony in 2007 do you recall by the final round approximately what % of participants were outside? That’s a yes or no.

Mr. Mercer: Yes

Ms. Polk: Tell us what %

Mr. Mercer: It was close to 50%

Ms. Polk: Do you recall how many participants?

Mr. Mercer: I think that one was a lot bigger.We had to build it bigger for him so a little over 60 people.

Ms. Polk: Where tarps used?

Mr. Mercer: Yes

Ms. Polk: When do you recall tarps being used?

Mr. Mercer: After the last so the one in ‘09 I don’t think we used them in ’08 .. Yeah that’s right I don’t’ think we used them on the ground until 09

Ms. Polk: Could it have been 08?

Mr. Mercer: That was incorrect because there was no tarps. That’s one of the reasons why we started using tarps because we started dragging people out in the dirt

Ms. Polk: At some point in ceremony 2008 was your attention drawn to a specific individual?

Mr. Mercer: At specific times yes

Ms. Polk: Limiting your answer to just that one person, what drew your attention to them?

Mr. Mercer: All of her muscles were cramping and she couldn’t get it undone.

Ms. Polk: Describe for the jury what you saw.

Mr. Mercer: Her arms were all cramped up and her legs were like this and she was in the fetal position.

Ms. Polk: Do you recall how long she was like that?

Mr. Mercer: Well yes

Ms. Polk: And what was your role that year?

Mr. Mercer: I was the fire keeper that that one.

Ms. Polk: Who assisted?

Mr. Mercer:  My wife Debbie a gentleman Rotillo and my daughter Sarah.

Ms. Polk: When was it that you agreed to do the ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: By 2009 I was no longer working for Angel Valley.

Ms. Polk: Were you paid to assist with the 2009 sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: As far as tips go, I got tips for assistant (This is a lie, he insisted on being paid more that year)

Ms. Polk: Who paid you?

Mr. Mercer: Gary did (Gary Palish aka Silver Bear: http://is.gd/QrRJlE )

Ms. Polk: “Do you recall how much you were paid?

Mr. Mercer: I can’t remember no.

Ms. Polk: When did you start the ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: I started heating rocks at 2:00 pm

Ms. Polk: When did the ceremony start?

Mr. Mercer: Nobody got in there till at least 5:00 because I remember the fire was burning for at least 3 hours before they got there.

Ms. Polk: In the 2007 ceremony conducted by Mr. Ray what type of wood did you use?

Mr. Mercer: That was all natural just downed trees that were over by the creek

Ms. Polk: Who collected the rocks?

Mr. Mercer: Rotillo

Ms. Polk: What kind of rocks were they?

Mr. Mercer: Lava rocks.

Ms. Polk: Do you add anything to the fire?

Mr. Mercer: No. Before we start the fire we add a pinch of tobacco and a pinch of sage for an offering

Ms. Polk: Did you have a conversation with Mr. Ray before the ceremony began?

Mr. Mercer: Yes, I let him know that this was the hottest fire I’ve ever had and the rocks were hot.

Ms. Polk: Did he respond to you?

Mr.Mercer:: Yeah he said good.

Ms. Polk: What did Mr. Ray do then?

Mr. Mercer: He had me go into where the participants were and he had me tell them the same thing.

Ms. Polk: How do you brush them off?

Mr. Mercer: With a whisk broom

Ms. Polk: Do you recall how many rocks were called for  the 1st round?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you recall for any of the rounds?

Mr. Mercer: I remember 1 round he only asked for 4 rocks

Ms. Polk: Do you recall when you noticed that participants were starting to feel distress?

Mr. Mercer: No I can’t say specifically but it was in the 4 -5 round area.

Ms. Polk: Do you recall how many rounds were held?

Mr. Mercer: There was 8 of them.

Ms. Polk: Do you recall how many rocks were called for

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you recall how many rocks were gathered before the ceremony began in prep for the ceremony?

Mercer: There was 100 rocks.

Ms. Polk: How were they used?

Mr. Mercer: I’m not sure how they were used.

Ms. Polk: Could you hear what was going on inside the sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: I heard people yelling out there intentions there were some singing going on you could hear the pourer talking and explaining things.

Ms. Polk: At some point was your attention drawn to a specific person?

Mr. Mercer: Yes

Ms. Polk: When was that?

Mr. Mercer: Probably around the 4th or 5th round A guy came out and his whole arm was burnt and it was burned really bad and he had fallen into the hole where the rocks were

Ms. Polk: What did you see happen to him?

Mr. Mercer: We took him over to a place to sit down and somebody was getting ice for him or butter. Then fawn came in and said no not butter let’s just put ice on it.

Ms. Polk: Did he go back into the sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: I saw him there while he was sitting there and talking and after a while he went back in

Ms. Polk: Did you have any interraction with him before he went back in?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah

Ms. Polk: Did Mr. Ray said anything?

Mr. Mercer: Not that I can recall no

Ms. Polk: Was your attention drawn to another person?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah he was yelling about having a heart attack and he didn’t want to die and he was getting rather loud

Ms. Polk: Where were you?

Mr. Mercer: standing over him

Ms. Polk: What was he saying?

Mr. Mercer: He was screaming and yelling that he didn’t want to die and he was  having a heart attack.

Ms. Polk: Did you hear Mr. Ray say anything to that man?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah I heard him yell out to him he said you’re more than what’s going on and you’ll be ok

Ms. Polk: What did Mr. Ray say that you’re not going to die and everything will be fine and you’ll be ok

Mr. Mercer: Yeah he encourages em to come back in … Something like the doors open and we’re going to start a new round and does anybody want to come back in

Ms. Polk: Did Mr. Ray address participants who had left his sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah

Ms. Polk: In 2008 what did you hear him say?

Mr. Mercer: Pretty much same.

Ms. Polk: Did you notice a difference between the way in 2009 Mr. Ray addressed those who had left and way he addressed them in 2008?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Ms. Polk: Did you notice a difference between the  way he’d addressed participants in 2009 and 2007?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Ms. Polk: Was there a difference?

Mr. Mercer: No not really.

Ms. Polk: Tell us the difference between 2008 and 2009 in the way Mr. Ray addressed those who had left.

Defense: Objection.

Judge Darrow: Overruled.

Mr. Mercer: He was louder, louder and he seemed to talk a little bit more.

Ms. Polk: Were you ever made aware of a safety plan?

Defense: Objection. Lack of foundation the term safety plan is vague and ambiguous

Judge Darrow: Sustained.

Ms. Polk: Were you ever informed whether nurse present.

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Ms. Polk: Did you know who that was?

Mr. Mercer: No.

Ms. Polk: Did you ever have a conversation with her?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah I did talk to her

Ms. Polk: What did you talk about?

Mr. Mercer: The weather

Ms. Polk: Did you ever discuss with you anything pert to taking care of participants?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: In the final round recall how many participants inside?

Mr. Mercer: Still quite a few in there was well over half

Ms. Polk: Do you recall how ceremony ended?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah just like any other one . He said open the door and all the people came out just like regular.

Ms. Polk: At some point were you aware of people in distress?

Mr. Mercer: Well in one participants case my wife was yelling and I could hear her yelling for help I went over to the other side of sweat lodge — 2 people her and my daughter were pulling them out

Ms. Polk: Did you wife open up the sweat lodge to get those people out?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah she opened it up herself.

Ms. Polk: When your wife opened the sweat lodge how did she get your attention?

Mr. Mercer: When she yelled.

Ms. Polk: And then you ran over there ?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah.

Ms. Polk: Tell jury what you saw.

Mr. Mercer: I saw 2 people laying just outside another guy still inside the sweat lodge. I went over to a young lady that way laying over there. I started checking their vital signs

Ms. Polk: What did you observe?

Mr. Mercer: Blue lips a greyish face no pulse.

Ms. Polk do you have any medical training?

Mr. Mercer: I’m an emergency first response instructor

Ms. Polk: When were you certified as that?

Mr. Mercer: In 2004

Ms. Polk: And right now?

Mr. Mercer: Right now I’m on non-teaching status

Ms. Polk: When had you gone from teacher to non-teacher?

Mr. Mercer: Probably 2008

Ms. Polk: What would you teach?

Mr. Mercer: I would teach people who wanted to learn 1st aid and emergency CPR adult CPR

Ms. Polk: And did you become aware at some point that the other man was James Shore?

Mr. Mercer: Yes

Ms. Polk: When did you learn his name?

Mr. Mercer: I don’t recall, later

Ms. Polk: And what did you observe about Mr. Shore?

Mr. Mercer: I checked his vital signs also.  His face was getting grey, his lips were blue there was no pulse or no breathing.

Ms. Polk: Did you become aware of Kirby Brown?

Mr. Mercer:  Kirby Brown, yes she was a thin girl and in good shape

Ms. Polk: How much time passed from the time Debbie left and emergency 1st responder arrived?

Mr. Mercer: Probably half hour.

Ms. Polk: At some point did you step away from Ms. Brown and Mr. Shore?

Mr. Mercer: That’s why I stepped aside because someone identified herself as a doctor and said she was in control.

Ms. Polk: What time did you leave Angel Valley?

Mr. Mercer: Probably until bout 8 or 9 because the police told everybody they needed to stay until the police arrived.

Ms. Polk: Where were you when the police arrived?

Mr. Mercer: I was working on Kirby Brown

Ms. Polk: Did you perform CPR on Kirby?

Mr. Mercer: At first I gave a couple of puffs then other people came and took over.

Ms. Polk: Were you aware of where Mr. Ray was?

Mr. Mercer: Uhhhhh well no

Exhibit 229 admitted

Ms. Polk: Do you recall what he did?

Mr. Mercer: I think he was just lookin at what was going on.

Ex 278

Ms. Polk: Do you recognize this photo? Can you read the shirt?

Mr. Mercer: Verde valley fire district

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

3 people dragged out by Mercers: Kirby, James and Sean Ronan #jamesray

Jurors are requesting a break

After break

Ms. Polk: You’re a scuba diver instructor?

Mr. Mercer: Yes I am

Ms. Polk: What else are you certified in?

Mr. Mercer: I am an emergency 1st responder instructor

Ms. Polk: Are you able to tell if conscious or unconscious?

Mr. Mercer: Yes

Ms. Polk: Did you observe anyone who was vomiting?

Mr. Mercer: Yes, right out of the sweat lodge vomited right at the door

Ms. Polk: In 2008 did you observe anybody vomiting?

Mr. Mercer: Yes

Ms. Polk: Did you observe anybody vomiting in 2007?

Mr. Mercer: Yes

Ms. Polk: Did you observe anybody vomiting 2009?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Ms. Polk: Did you have an opportunity to observe eyes of the participants?

Mr. Mercer: Sure.

Ms. Polk: Specifically what did you observe?

Mr. Mercer: Two ladies actually they would look right through ya– they were up and they were sitting but they couldn’t tell you their name they couldn’t’ tell you what the date was ..You would look at them and their eyes would go right past ya.

Ms. Polk: In 2009 did you observe any other non-ordinary symptoms?

Defense: Objection.

Judge Darrow: Overruled.

Mr. Mercer: People crawling out laying in the dirt laying on the tarps faces are all red just laying in the dirt trying to recover from their experience

Ms. Polk: Do you know whether or not wood was pressed?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you know whether or not wood treated?

Mr. Mercer: No I do not

Ms. Polk: What direction smoke was blowing?

Mr. Mercer: It would blow in all directions

Ms. Polk: Do you recall whether the Smoke ever went inside the sweat lodge itself

Mr. Mercer: No it did not

Ms. Polk: Where there any beverages to drink?

Mr. Mercer: There was yes

Ms. Polk: Did you ever drink anything at Mr. Ray’s sweat lodge ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah I probably did

Ms. Polk: Did you get sick?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Anything to eat

Mr. Mercer: Not afterwards they brought out some fruit

Ms. Polk: Why did you do that for the participants? Because they looked like the needed help was that your function there?

Mr. Mercer: Well no my function was the fire keeper

Counsel stipulates to admission

Ms. Polk: How a blanket from underneath the sweat lodge got on top of the sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah its town apart it probably got yanked out

Ms. Polk: Did you become aware of blankets taken from sweat lodge itself?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you know if other people did it?

Mr. Mercer: Not to my knowledge

Ms. Polk: Does the sweat lodge normally look like this after a sweat?

Li Defense: Objection. Your honor obviously, the police have compromised the scene

Ms. Polk: In 2009 did you observe any other non-ordinary symptoms?

Defense: Objection.

Judge Darrow: Overruled.

Mr. Mercer: People crawling out laying in the dirt laying on the tarps faces are all red just laying in the dirt trying to recover from their experience

Ms. Polk: Do you know whether or not wood was pressed?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you know whether or not wood treated?

Mr. Mercer: No I do not

Ms. Polk: What direction smoke was blowing?

Mr. Mercer: It would blow in all directions

Ms. Polk: Do you recall whether the Smoke ever went inside the sweat lodge itself

Mr. Mercer: No it did not

Ms. Polk: Where there any beverages to drink?

Mr. Mercer: There was yes

Ms. Polk: Did you ever drink anything at Mr. Ray’s sweat lodge ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah I probably did

Ms. Polk: Did you get sick?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Anything to eat

Mr. Mercer: Not afterwards they brought out some fruit

Ms. Polk: Why did you do that for the participants? Because they looked like the needed help was that your function there?

Mr. Mercer: Well no my function was the fire keeper

Counsel stipulates to admission

Ms. Polk: How a blanket from underneath the sweat lodge got on top of the sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah its town apart it probably got yanked out

Ms. Polk: Did you become aware of blankets taken from sweat lodge itself?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you know if other people did it?

Mr. Mercer: Not to my knowledge

Ms. Polk: Does the sweat lodge normally look like this after a sweat?

Li Defense: Objection. Your honor obviously, the police have compromised the scene

Ms. Polk: Did you ever provide a statement to law enforcement with an attorney present?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Specifically in 2007 ceremony not conducted by Mr. Ray, did you observe anybody vomiting?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever have to assist someone out of a sweat lodge conducted by anybody other than Mr. Ray?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe someone unconscious in a sweat lodge ceremony not conducted by Mr. Ray?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Think back to all the sweat lodges in which you assisted not conducted by Mr. Ray. Did you ever observe anybody vomiting?

Mr. Mercer: Not at all

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody that you needed to drag out?

Mr. Mercer: Not at all

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody unconscious?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody sick?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: At the other sweat lodge ceremonies did you ever observe anybody who was sick? Vomiting? Or did you assist anybody to come out of sick in any way?

Mr. Mercer: No no no

Ms. Polk: For the sweat lodge ceremony Conducted in 2007, not conducted by Mr. Ray, what is the normal length of the ceremony in terms of rounds?

Defense: Objection. Relevance

Council approach bench – another lengthy side bar

Ms. Polk: Now I’m going to ask specific about sweat lodge ceremony you had a role in in 2007. For the ceremonies not conducted by Mr. Ray, Do you recall how many rounds that was?

Ms. Mercer: I think it was about 8 rounds

Ms. Polk:  For the 2nd ceremony in 2007 how long was that?

Mr. Mercer: Well not how long whole thing lasted hour and a half

Ms. Polk: Mr. Rays ceremony was how long?

Mr. Mercer:  Over two hours.

Ms. Polk: With respect to ceremony in 2007 you did for someone other than Mr. Ray, do you recall how long the door was opened?

Defense: Objection. Judge Darrow: Sustained.

Foundation issue on foundation Judge Darrow: Sustained.

Ms. Polk: For the 2nd ceremony you did in 2007. do you know how many rounds?

Defense: Objection. Relevance

Mr. Mercer Yes

Ms. Polk: Tell the jury how many.

Mr. Mercer 4

Ms. Polk: With respect to that ceremony do you recall how many rocks were used?

Defense: Objection.

Judge Darrow: Overruled.

Mr.Mercer: Can I Answer that?

Judge Darrow: Yes

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you recall approximately how many?

Mr. Mercer No

Ms. Polk: Do you recall with respect to that ceremony in 2007 what the facilitator did with respect to participants between the rounds?

Defense: Objection. Relevance and all of the things at sidebar your honor

Judge Darrow: Sustained.

Ms. Polk: Are you familiar with role of facilitator, the role of pourer at a sweat lodge?

Mercer: No

Defense: Objection.

NO

In that picture it’s hard to tell what’s going on there.

Ms. Polk: Did you have a role in taking down the Kiva

Mr. Mercer Yes

Ms. Polk: Tell the jury how you took it apart

Mr. Mercer We had a knife and there were some people untying it.

Ms. Polk: Did you have a role in the burning ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: Yes I said let’s say a prayer to the corn meal and offer it to the sweat lodge. It’s an energetic offering you offer it pretty much you try to help any negative energies or any of the souls that might be hanging around.

Ms. Polk: What did you do with the tobacco pouches?

Mr. Mercer: Those are called prayer ties

Ms. Polk: What did you do with them?

Mr. Mercer: We threw them into the fire too. You know to get rid of the bad energy.

Ms. Polk: How many rocks would there be at the other sweat lodge ceremonies, those not conducted by Mr. Ray?

Mr. Mercer I know that singing bear would only have 24 Kerrie she had approximately 30. I know that healing would be in the 20-24 range.

Defense: You instructed Ms. Polk that she could not make comparisons between sweat lodges

Judge Darrow: Li in his voir dire did some substance potential foundation about that

Mr.Kelly : I’m not arguing the point

This argument had to do with 15 disclosed witnesses and what’s going to happen now

Mr. Kelly: This goes to the issue of physical causation and doesn’t need to be cumulative

Mr. Hughes will address that topic ..

Long sidebar and admitting evidence about past sweat lodges

Mr. Hughes: with who were not participants in 09 will be relatively brief witnesses

I do believe there is a point where evidence become cumulative. We don’t intent to cross that point

It’s not just about causation and here’s the circumstantial evidence of that

People getting up there and going far beyond strict observations

404b – life threatening conditions were involved

Ms. Polk heard her articulate a pattern

Mr. Kelly: It appears that 404b floodgate is open. And now under the myth of causation they’re going to be. The jury can’t just get one side of this.  We’ve been through this in November

One picture, look what distress they’re in — another picture with thumbs up and big smiles on their face

Mr. Hughes: I realize it’s 4:30

Mr. Hughes: The state takes exception to the myth of causation. Causation is appropriate for the defense to address it

At this point we may not call all 15 we just need to make that …

Mr. Kelly: Causation is not a myth it’s a necessary element that the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Mr. Kelly: 15 out of hundreds is not an accurate factual representation of what happened.

Mr. Kelly: In order to properly assess our alternatives we need clear direction from the court as to what’s going to be allowed

Mr. Kelly: That’s inadequate judge

There’s not going to be cumulative testimony

It depends on what the defense does

Judge Darrow: Suggesting some sort of propensity it’s not going to be that

That’s all I can say.

Mr. Kelly: The Defense is entitled to a list of people that they intend to present as to those prior years

Mr. Hughes: I don’t know if the 15 number is quite accurate that would be approximately 4 per year

Individual witnesses remember different things about each year

Mr. Kelly: Cumulative rule applies in every case in terms of every bit of evidence

Mr. Hughes: We may continue to pare the list down.

Photograph had to be disclosed

Mr. Kelly: A Lay observation of an affect at a sweat lodge has been introduced at this trial

Judge Darrow: There were objections. There’s No reason to dwell on this type brought up with respect to physical causation not the legal aspect of causation.

 

 

 

State of Arizona v James Arthur Ray

Manslaughter trial

April 7, 2011

Morning: Cross examination of Theodore Martin Mercer by Mr. Li

Afternoon: re-direct by Ms. Polk

MORNING TWEETS:

yogicher J. Cheri

Li to Ted Mercer: do you know if they’re allowed to charge extra for room/board, as a church? #JamesRay how would TM know?!

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Li asking about Angel Valley charging #JamesRay $100K for SW09 :: are they allowed to do that as a non-profit ministry? A: I don’t know.

yogicher J. Cheri

Having a megalomaniac at the helm does RT@TomMcFeeley Li asks TM if a veg diet @ retreats eliminates people’s ability to make choices.#jamesray

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

QUESTION: Did Angel Valley have a building permit for the sweat lodge? A: Don’t know. #JamesRay

Jeanne0o0 Jeannika @dotfreedom 404 rules only apeopley to the defendant. #JamesRay attorneys can basically say whatever they want to impeach.

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Li making a pointing of saying “James Ray International” repeatedly. #JamesRay

TragedyInSedona Connie Joy

She chose to face plant RT @RayShouldPay: Li points out it’s not that bad to pass out and face plant if you are already crawling. #JamesRay

thefash thefash

Li starts talking about camp pendleton… TM doesn’t know about that, Li continues, pointing out laying in mud is normal behavior #jamesray

dotfreedom DOROTHY

“this lady””an Asian looking woman”-Li laughs that Mercer can’t tell difference between Chinese or ….I hate being called “Lady”- #jamesray

godlesswoman Lisa DeGraaf

As I watch the #jamesray trial I can’t help but wish people would just use critical thinking skills.

Jeanne0o0 Jeannika @TomMcFeeley Gee, I wonder if they’ll be calling Hermia Nelson to the stand / #JamesRay ‘s girlfriend … that would be good

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

So you’re CPR trained but know nothing about heat injuries….You silly fire tender #jamesray

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Li introduces a series of photos from the 2008 #sweatlodge :: #JamesRay

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

Li insinuating that the state did not disclose ALL of Deb Mercer’s photographs of 2008 sweat lodge. Surely more to come #jamesray

Jeanne0o0 Jeannika @OkieVision I wonder if she and #JamesRay are still an item? If so I agree Nelson would most likely NOT be objective.

katiecoolady Kathy M.

No matter how Li tries to spin this as a Disneyland ride, people DIED here, were seriously INJURED. Not a fun ride. #jamesray

HandfulOfRice

Giddiness is a symptom of heat exhaustion. #jamesray @JamesARay

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

FYI, Megan Fredrickson told police that #jamesray instructed Angel Valley to build a lower lodge because 2007 wasn’t hot enough

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Li implying the everything was all smiles :: so it was all good. But Lou Caci went back in the lodge … was that all good? #JamesRay

dotfreedom DOROTHY

“…the lady in the bikini just talking to some people” – Li describing pp outside sweat lodge in 2008.Just like a damn party. NOT #jamesray

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

And let’s not forget #jamesray told participants “we don’t want the heat to go too far” when telling them why roof was low

dotfreedom DOROTHY

“another lady lying on her side with her eyes closed” -Li still describing the “party” outside sweat lodge #jamesray

dotfreedom DOROTHY

“there’s a guy massaging somebody’s feet?” – Li It was like being at a spa! NOT #jamesray

luckygalnj Martha Stem

People smiling in 2008 but also clearly seen are others in obvious distress ! #cantyouseemrli ? #jamesray

Thrustingbeast T. Beast

Seeing someone laying in mud with a pool of water around them is disturbing. How is that a fun little even? Li is delusional. #jamesray

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

The @insession people are missing the point that vomiting, deliriousness, eyes rolling back are signs of heat illnesses #jamesray

dking1212 debb king

TM notes that not really hotter for JAR sweat lodge but other sweatlodges were not that hot. Li seemed to glide past that point. #jamesray

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

QUESTION: You were searching for answers cause it was such a surprise that people died? A: I wouldn’t say it was a surprise. #JamesRay

dotfreedom DOROTHY

“I do know the policy was no pesticides on the property.”- Mercer #jamesray

The autopsy reports ALSO came back with NOTHING on the toxin screens. There were NO POISONS AT ALL. Just heat-related trauma. #jamesray

 

luckygalnj Martha Stem @ yogicher Anything to create “reasonable doubt” no matter how absurd #jamesray

La_Huesera La Vaughn

Black widow “colonies” living in blankets? Has Luis Li ever been outside? #jamesray

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

Mr. Mercer: when people get their energy back, do they tend to smile, maybe put their thumbs up? #jamesray

yogicher J. Cheri

Is Li suggesting that the construction pile was closer than 100′? So close that just the proximity is what killed three people? #JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

The alpha and omega told Dennis to STFU. #JamesRay Li stalling.

yogicher J. Cheri

Li: you saw”chunks of rat poison?” – TM: I had seen that same rat poison there the whole time I worked at ANGEL VALLEY. #JamesRay

RayShouldPay James Ray’s Shame

Mr. Li tells the jury that Detective. Diskin didn’t tell the ME about the oh so intriguing “old rat poison in the pump house” theory. #JamesRay

dotfreedom DOROTHY

#jamesray ‘s ears are playing Full-On!

AFTERNOON: Cross Examination of  Theodore Martin Mercer

Mr. Li:  Have you ever purchased pressure treated wood have you ever made a fence?

Mr. Mercer: No I haven’t .

Mr. Li:  You understand that pressure treated wood has some … to prevent wood rot correct?

Mr.Mercer; unresponsive

Mr. Li:  If you’re going to build a house, say a log cabin that’s in say Sedona. you do not want to  replace that wood every year so you use pressure treated wood correct?

Mr. Mercer: Well yeah.

Mr. Li:  Is it a good idea or a bad idea to burn pressure treated wood?

Mr. Mercer: I would think it would be a bad idea.

Mr. Li:  Are you aware whether or not the ash not the wood is poisonous?

Mr. Mercer: I don’t know I’m a carpet layer I never work with wood.

Mr. Li:  Mr. Hamilton n, he’s the one who told you what wood to use?

Mr. Mercer: Yup.

Mr. Li:  It was not Mr. Ray that told you what wood to use that’s what you said on your tape.

Mr. Mercer: I did?

Li: You had told Detective Diskin that you actually used treated wood.

Mercer: I don’t know if I actually said it was treated or not.

Mr. Li asks to play exhibit 680

Excerpt from interview played

Mr. Mercer: “The only thing diff that happened on this sweat lodge that the other sweat lodge is we used this wood do you see that we used this wood instead of see the logs over there that we use for log cabins .”

Mr. Li: Is that treated with anything?

Mr. Mercer: I don’t  know. Michael the owner of the place, he’s a contractor so he should know.

Ms. Polk: he indicated that he was going to play through line 25 and he stopped short. Detective Diskin said ok I’ll check into that.

 

Mr. Li: If you said there was no pressure treated wood at Angel Valley that would be false?

Mr. Mercer: I don’t know myself because I don’t’ know what pressure treated wood looks like.

Mr. Polk: first of all this witness is not disagreeing, but  it’s being misread to suggest that some of its pressure treated

Judge Darrow Mr. Li let’s get the exact language

Ms. Polk: Detective Diskin says I see that one is

Mr. Li: What was your wife complaining of?

Mr. Mercer: She was suffering from headaches upset stomach  and …just to get checked out. She asked me if it was possible and I said it was possible.

Mr. Li: But you did say I think it’s the wood?

Mr. Mercer: I did say that yeah.

Mr. Li:  You were also interviewed about the rat poison correct?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah.

Mr. Li: You were asked about the tarps correct?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah.

Mr. Li:  If they only took a few square feet  they would have only taken 1% ….?

Mr. Mercer: I guess I’m not very good with math.

Mr. Li: Less than 48 hours the Hamiltons decided to burn the remaining pieces of the sweat lodge correct? Mercer: Correct?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah.

Mr Li: They decided to take the rest of the sweat lodge, throw it into a van and drive off with it correct?

Mercer: Yes they did .

Mr. Li: And you were there correct?

Mr. Mercer. Yes.

Mr. Li: Did your attorney Monica Lindstrom drive down from …(Scottdsale? Inaudible)

Mr. Mercer: It’s all done per diem she’s not charging us. Do you want to know how we got her?

Mr. Li: No. That’s ok.

Mr. Li: What are you burning in this photograph?

Mr. Mercer: Willow branches & tobacco pouches.

Mr. Li: Michael & Amayra Hamilton they are sitting there watching the burning of the willow and  the tobacco correct?

Mr. Mercer: Yup.

Mr. Li: They also raked the ground?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Mr. Li: They also removed the tarps and blankets?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Overhead showing: Exhibit 564

Mr. Mercer: I don’t think it’s been raked but it was certainly cleared up

Mr. Li: But the burning was less than 48 hours after 2 people died?

Mr. Mercer: Well…

Mr. Li: So less than 48 hours?

Mr. Mercer: I guess so.

Mr. Li: Mr. Hamilton he also cut up the tarps correct?

Mr. Mercer: I didn’t see him cutting anything but I did see him putting them in the van.

Mr. Li: He eventually takes them all, puts them in his van and drives somewhere?

Mr. Mercer: Yes.

Mr. Li: Do you know that Mr.& Mrs. Hamilton, Angel Valley,  all of them have been sued by 10 of the participants correct?

Mr. Mercer: I’ve heard something like that but I don’t know.

Mr. Mercer: Did you ever talk to Mr. Hamilton about burning the construction wood?

Mr. Mercer: No I did not.

Mr. Li: Did you ever talk to Mrs. Hamilton about and your concerns?

Mr. Mercer: We weren’t really on friendly terms at that time so there wasn’t a whole lot of talking going on.

Li: It is absolutely never allowed at Angel Valley to use weed killer?

Mr. Mercer: That’s what I understood at the time.

EXHIBIT 560

Mr. Li: Did you talk to the detective about getting a lawyer?

Mr. Mercer: He told us that it wouldn’t hurt to get a civil lawyer.

That’s my lawyer over there.

Do you want to know how I got her?

Mr. Li: You had also been assured by Detective Diskin that you would not be investigated criminally is that correct?

Mr. Mercer: That’s correct

MS. POLK ON RE DIRECT

Ms. Polk: Going back to the sweat lodges held in2008 and 2009, t was a different frame right?

Mr. Mercer: Um In 2008, 2009 it was a new kiva.

Ms. Polk: But in 2008 2009 was the frame different?

Mr. Mercer: It was the same.

Ms. Polk: The coverings the blankets and the sleeping bags to the best of you knowledge were they the same?

Mr. Mercer: The same

Ms. Polk: To the best of you knowledge were the tarp the same of different?

Mr. Mercer: They were the same because of the way they were stacked

Ms. Polk: Were they the same stones or different ones?

Mr. Mercer: Different stones

Ms. Polk: The wood you used was it of the same type?

Mr. Mercer: Umm in 2008 combination of regular tree wood we found and the construction wood.

Ms. Polk: Just talking about the sweat lodge you assisted at in 2007.Did you ever observe anybody vomitting?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody become combative?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody become faint?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody frothing at the mouth?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody with their eyes rolling back in their head?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever observe anybody become unconscious?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Did you ever assist anybody in any way?

Mr. Mercer: Not at all

Ms. Polk: When did you first become aware that the subs you observed could be rat poison?

Mr. Mercer: 07

Ms. Polk: In 2007 when you retrieved the blankets, sweat lodge tarp to build a sweat lodge for Mr. Ray’s ceremony did you ever see any substance that appeared to be rat poison in the blankets themselves?

Mr. Mercer: No I didn’t

Ms. Polk: After new frame constructed in 2008 – 1st ceremony conducted in new frame was the one conducted by Mr. Ray?

Mr. Mercer: I think there was 2 sweat lodge before his …before we built it (?)

Ms. Polk: Did you ever render assist to those participants in those ceremony facilitated by somebody other than Mr. Ray?

Mr. Mercer: No I did not

Ms. Polk: Did anybody check on you?

Mr. Mercer: Basically it was Debbie and I that built it and put it together.

Ms. Polk: Did Mr. Ray ever come down and check on you?

Mr. Mercer: Nobody really came down and checked on us. The person who facilitated is not the one who puts together the sweat lodge.

Ms. Polk: In the other ceremonies conducted at Angel Valley was it Angel Valley or the person facilitated that put together the sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: Angel Valley

Ms. Polk: In 2007, talking specifically about people vomiting did Gary Polish tell you that was normal?

Mr. Mercer: Um he told em we’re gonna see some tings what did hesay He told me we’re gonna see some things you would not see at other sweat lodges.

Mr. Mercer: Can I elaborate?

Ms. Polk: Yes.

Mr. Mercer: That was the very 1st sweat lodge we had encountered so we went to Gary and we ..

Ms. Polk: Who is Gary?

Mercer: Gary Palish.  He said, you’re going to see things with Mr. .Ray that you’re not going to see with other groups.

Ms. Polk: Looking at the photograph taken in 2008, do these photo accurately depict for you what happened at Mr. Ray’s sweat lodge ceremony?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Why not?

Mr. Mercer: Because right after the sweat lodge was over and the first half hour we were working on people that needed assistance.

There were 2 ladies there that didn’t know their name so we were..

Ms. Polk: The lady in the pink suit, do you know who that is?

Mr. Mercer: No I do not

Ms. Polk: Do you have any recollection of that lady?

Mr. Mercer: Specifically no I can’t’ say I know her

May I elaborate?

Ms. Polk: Yes.

Mercer: (elaborating) There’s so many people  & we did so many different sweat lodges you know I never got to know the people…

Ms. Polk: In 2008 immediately following end of Mr. Ray’s ceremony can you tell jury what your wife was doing?

Mr. Mercer: She was assisting people.

Ms. Polk: Do you know when she began taking photos?

Mr. Mercer: An hour, 45 min afterwards

Ms. Polk: Is that how the participants looked immediately following ceremony in 2008?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah some of them

Describe for the jury how did the participants look immediately

Mr. Li: Objection Judge Darrow: Sustained.

Exhibit 867

Mr. Mercer: I don’t’ know her name but t I do know the lady because that’s the lady who didn’t recall who she was.

Ms. Polk: Describe for the jury how she was.

Mr. Mercer: She was up and she was looking at you but she had a huge smile on her face she acted like she was about 3 years old.

I kept asking her who she was where she was.  After about 45 minutes,  a couple of people took her off to her room. I saw her in the dining room m after that and she still didn’t know who she was.

Ms. Polk: Was Mr. Ray’s sweat lodge ceremony the same of different  from the one in 2007?

Mr. Mercer: It looks the same. People laying on the ground laying around some people were happy and some people weren’t so happy.

EXHIBIT 849

Zoom in lower right

Exhibit 864

Ms. Polk: Do you know what that man is doing with the feet?

Mr. Mercer: He looks like he’s rubbing her feet trying to get …. Looks like he’s rubbing her feet

Looks like the same scene with these 2 ladies talking to the one that was incoherent

People feeling good and people laying down People in various stages of distress I would say

Ms. Polk: Have you ever seen anything like this for ceremony facilitated by people other than Mr. Ray?

Defense: Objection.

Judge Darrow: Overruled.

Mr. Mercer: Not at all

Ms. Polk: What don’t you see?

Mr. Mercer: You don’t see …

Defense:  Objection

Judge Darrow: Overruled

Mr. Mercer: What you don’t see is big puddles of water and people laying in the dirt and just the general mess of the whole place too.

Ms. Polk: In 2009 after Mr. Ray’s ceremony, how many minutes passed before you realized something was really wrong?

Mr. Mercer: Maybe 5 or 10

Ms. Polk: During that 5 or 10 minutes, were people coming out of the sweat lodge?

Mr. Mercer: Yeah some people came out very empowered and other people came out on their face.

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

Mercer: I had to sit on that man to keep him from entering lodge; he was trying to get his gf out. He wrestled him half hour #jamesray

TomMcFeeley Tom McFeeley

by RayShouldPay

Mercer: Man was irate; 2-3 hours later he didn’t remember a thing #jamesray

by RayShouldPay

“he seemed to be irate, out of his mind – we couldn’t reason with him” TM says of Martino. #JamesRay

Ms. Polk: Looking at the pile of treated wood that Mr. Li pointed out, did you ever burn this wood?

Mr. Mercer: There was no reason to use that wood because this wood was sitting here in a nice pile and it burns very well.

Ms. Polk: Do you know if this wood was treated in any way?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Do you know who would know?

Mr. Mercer: Michael Hamilton

Ms. Polk: Do you know what Mr. Hamilton did before he came to Angel Valley?

Mr. Mercer.I’m not sure, but I heard he was a contractor.

Ms. Polk: Did you ever feel sick being close to the fire in 2008 with that wood burning in it?

Mr. Mercer: No

Ms. Polk: Regarding the sweat lodge. When that was in use did you need to use rocks to hold it down?

Mr. Mercer; Yeah.

Ms. Polk: Why did you need to use rocks?

Mr. Mercer: Just to make sure that the bottom was sealed and no air was getting in and out. Just to make sure it will get hot in there they don’t  want any air transferring in and out.

Then Michael came over and said, “Why aren’t you using this rubber deal?” So when we started using that.

 

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